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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1404 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jun 4th, 2008 09:35 pm |
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Psssst, it's used to soothe the ruffled souls. Although I'm sure that's not the case between Liverpool and Manchester United!
In that case, you'll need a whole' lotta prayin' there sister! 
All kidding aside, you raised up a very good question about Andrea's (I believe I got that right, -- this thread did kind of stretch a bit) line of questioning. While I haven't the slightest idea if she's ever attended law school, what she's employing is something every first year student has to get the knack of: the ability to KNOW the answer to every question they ask. No surprises, no smoking guns, etc.
That's fine for trying to solve a case, get a guilty plea (or use for exactly the opposit reasons.) But I can't see how successful it can be in theological discussions w/o leaving the others left feeling boxed out of any chance to come to a more pleasant and reasoned end of the discussion. You know as well as I or anyone else, we're not going to "win" every discussion, nor is every discussion suitable for "winning" or racking up points in order to please seminary profs or periodical editors we'd love to have publish our writings. There are somethings that just can't be easily framed in, boxed tight and theologically "proven" just by plunking a Bible on the table and say, "Well, let's move it from here with this."
That's the old "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it" one-size-fits all-approach. This is especially so with Baptists as they will readily admit and joke about their propensity to agree to disagree over the smallest arguments before they even get around to dealing with the meatier stuff.
In this part of my country, it's not the Catholics that evangelicals bother with this sort of approach. It's the Episcopalians and other more "liturgical" Protestants. Andrea's only defending her position based on just one leg of the Church's three-legged stool of Scripture, Tradition and Magisterial Teaachings. Alas, the Bible can't even explain itself.
But here's a cautionary observation designed to save you a lot of trouble: Trying to explain that the Bible can't explain itself, to an evangelical isn't much different than painting lipstick on catepillars one day and expecting butterflies the next.
Last edited on Wed Jun 4th, 2008 09:37 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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jacki
Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 7th, 2007 |
| Location: | Essex, England, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 82 |
| First Name: | jacki | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | baptised in the church of england (I am a brit) ... |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 06:53 pm |
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mmmm what a picture caterpillars with lipstick.
Her I'm right shut up approach reminded me of my nephew. He's 3.
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rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 517 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 07:05 pm |
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jacki wrote:
mmmm what a picture caterpillars with lipstick.
I was thinking the same thing. I'll have to remember that quote. IT's a good one.
Just stopping by to say Hi.  It's getting harder and harder to stay online. My workload has increased enormously and my time on at home has also shrunk. I keep peeking now and then and will jump in occasionally.
God Bless
Rich
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Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 357 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 10:06 pm |
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Tim LaHaye was formerly a Catholic? I've never read that statement about him before.
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LauraN.
Moderator
| Joined: | Tue Oct 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | Zanesville, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 10:07 pm |
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| This thread is worth staying on topic.
____________________
Laura Corrigan, Resource Specialist
The Coming Home Network, International
PO Box 8290
Zanesville, OH 43821
740-450-1175 ext 102
laura@chnetwork.org
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Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1404 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 12:49 am |
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Thanks for the compliment Rich, but I have to 'fess up and say I "borrowed" it from our former UN Ambassador John Bolton. Now, there's a great source for lively quotes!
And Laura, I'm sorry If got off-track. I was just answering a question and for some reason it looked like it wound up in two threads, and I might've answered the wrong answer--ee by the wrong name, to boot!
But I was really getting nervous that the response got "raptured over."
*Truth be told, I was pulled away in the midst of all that "ponderous research." Family matters! Imagine that; tending to family matters! 
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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Liza
Member
| Joined: | Thu Dec 28th, 2006 |
| Location: | Naples, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 25 |
| First Name: | Liza | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 04:47 am |
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Bottom line to me, after reading all the posts here...When we all die and meet Jesus face to face, will He ask are you Protestant or Catholic. To me, it's all about our personal relationship with Jesus.
I believe we complicate it all too much.
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LauraN.
Moderator
| Joined: | Tue Oct 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | Zanesville, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 01:46 pm |
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No problem. This thread is very valuable. 
Steven Barrett wrote:
Thanks for the compliment Rich, but I have to 'fess up and say I "borrowed" it from our former UN Ambassador John Bolton. Now, there's a great source for lively quotes!
And Laura, I'm sorry If got off-track. I was just answering a question and for some reason it looked like it wound up in two threads, and I might've answered the wrong answer--ee by the wrong name, to boot!
But I was really getting nervous that the response got "raptured over."
*Truth be told, I was pulled away in the midst of all that "ponderous research." Family matters! Imagine that; tending to family matters!
____________________
Laura Corrigan, Resource Specialist
The Coming Home Network, International
PO Box 8290
Zanesville, OH 43821
740-450-1175 ext 102
laura@chnetwork.org
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kersca
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 137 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 04:52 pm |
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Liza,
...Will God ask us if we were Catholics.... That's an interesting one. Maybe not. Well, if it doesn't matter which denomination we are, why even bother being Catholic? I mean, if it is just as pleasing to God to worship in the ____ church, why does it matter. Well Liza, I do believe it matters. I think that while the Holy Spirit moves in the lives of people of all denominations, He works in a special way in the Catholic Church. Now, modern commentary will agree with me here. Although, if we consider the Catholic Church Christ's creation and the Fathers intention, anyone who works against it subverts Christ. Let's use Warren Buffet as an analogy of protestantism. Buffet has given all this money to many good and charitable causes such as health care and feeding the poor. However, his charity also supports abortion. With one hand he does good and with the other tears at the very fabric of society. Should we give him a pass because the good outweighs the bad. Protestantism is in many ways similar. They recognize the cross and the saving work of Christ. The promote charitable works. They do so much that is good. However, at the same time they deny the vehicle of grace that is the Church. Some consider it ludicrous that Christ would be truly be present in the Eucharist. They have torn at the body of Christ like ravenous wolves. So, should we say that since they accept the cross all is ok?
Well, of course we should be charitable to people of all faiths. I never call any strange doctrine stupid or unbelievable. In all of them I see a sort of logic even though I don't necessarily agree. Heck, scripture can be persuasively used to argue 100 opposing views. All of the views are valid. However, not all are right. I, personally, believe the Catholic views are right. I have faith in those doctrines becuse I have faith that God has guided them. If I have a view that I discover is not in line witrh Catholic teaching, I readily cede that I am wrong because the Church and God is always right.
Will God ask people if they were protestant or Catholic? Of course there is no telling. However, God might ask if we treated others charitably. He might ask if we spoke to protestants with love or judgement or visa versa. He might turn away people who went to church weekly and say He never knew them (Catholics and Protestants). He might say that the hardness of your heart made you like a stranger. He might ask the hardest question, the one he asked Peter 3 times, "Do you love me"?
Adam
Last edited on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 04:57 pm by kersca
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Cathcon
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | Marie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | I am now Catholic but used to be Dutch Reformed |
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 08:10 pm |
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Liza, as Catholics it is our duty to tell others about our church - Our Lord told the Apostles - go therefore and make disciples of all men, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit - we refer to it as the great commissioning - at the time this was said there was only one church - at least the beginnings of one church - for centuries after that is all there was except for the heretical sects - I think that we sometimes forget that in all His love for us He still gave us specific things to do and He expects that to be done - so will He ask if you are Catholic or Protestant - probably not - but let us beware - He may say to us instead - did you love them as yourself as I commanded - in that case why did not not share the faith with them as I commanded. The answer to that question is maybe the one we should worry about most.
God bless always
Marie
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