 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
birdstrike
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 8 |
| First Name: | Birdstrike | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Science - Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 16th, 2006 04:50 am |
|
Hello everyone:
I'm new here - and although I feel that "coming home" is the culmination of a lifelong journey, I'm new to the Church as well.
Excepting our recent spiritual parting of the ways, my wife and I have a great marriage, in which we each delagate various things to eachother depending upon our particular strengths. As far as religion goes, that was my department, and I got her into the idea of going to church in the first place. But Catholic?! I guess that's going a little too far for her! She hasn't said "no", but she still goes to our old church (Christian Science - a 19th century revival of old heresies that I've shown her is wrong and self-contradictory), because it "feels" good. She's also quite proud, and I think that this is part of the equation too (Catholics do a lot of kneeling and confessing, don't they?!) Honestly, it hurts to see her reject my leadership (expertise?) here, and stick with such a (sorry) retarded, feel-good religion.
What's the best advice here?! I've read oodles of conversion stories, and I'm trying what I know:
"Be the best Catholic Christian you can be. . ."
"Don't force it down her throat . . ."
"Present the Church in a positive light . . ."
"Pray - pray - pray . . ."
Anything else?!
How can I plant - or begin watering - that seed of faith in her heart?! Any suggestions would be appreciated!
birdstrike
|
|
|
bjbouwer
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 57 |
| First Name: | Bonnie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian Scientist, pinball Christian, RCC in 2006 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 16th, 2006 09:25 am |
|
Hello and welcome to the Church!
Former Christian Scientist here. While I don't have advice, I will be praying for your situation. I know how "right" a Christian Scientist can feel, and how difficult it can be to see beyond the walls of CS.
Can you get her to go to http://www.christianway.org/? It's not a Catholic site, but it may be a first step away from CS. There are a couple of Catholics at the discussion board there.
Nice to meet you - and, like I said, I'll be praying for your situation.
____________________
Bonnie in WI
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2410 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 16th, 2006 10:11 am |
|
Welcome, birdstrike.
Being a regular here, I hear this question all the time. The answer is this: Take stock of what you have been told by others, what you are doing. They are in fact the most powerful means of “working on” someone’s enlightenment.
How is this? God, not you, is going to convert your wife if it is going to happen at all. If you are able to persuade her to change religions, then she is believing in you, submitting to you, rather than believing and submitting to God. Then what good is her religion? It is not a sincere conversion but a power play, a cult.
Prayer, above all, invokes the power of almighty God to the purpose of good. Who is mightier than God? What can you do in comparison to him? Then how is it that you think that something you can do all by yourself will tip the scales in favor of your intention?
Your own submission to God after the Catholic manner will show your wife the authenticity of your calling and of God’s truth and power for healing and sanctification. In other words, again it is God’s work, not yours, that is called for. She needs to see divine grace at work. It is too early in your career as a Catholic for this, so expect a period of time while you grow in holiness and establish closer bonds with the Lord. Then and only then will your wife have an incentive to move towards Catholicism.
My advice, then, is the same as St. Pio’s: Pray, hope and don’t worry. It is the safest and most powerful way.
It may also help you to cultivate patience and understanding if you read the book When Only One Converts. The editor is Lynn Nordhagen, whose own journey to the Catholic Church involved many twists and turns.
DavidLast edited on Sat Dec 16th, 2006 10:12 am by David W. Emery
|
|
|
nonsumdignus
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 7th, 2006 |
| Location: | Phoenix, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 33 |
| First Name: | Jay | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, "ex-static" to be Catholic! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 16th, 2006 07:19 pm |
|
| Scott Hahn, Ph.D., author of many, many Catholic books, had a strategy that worked. On the advice of his spiritual director, he put the romance of marriage on the front burner, and stopped overtly attempting to convert his wife. He arranged a weekly "date" with her. She saw the change in him and his attititude toward her and their marriage. He literally loved her into the Church. Read Rome Sweet Home. He was talking about this just last week on EWTN.
____________________
"All the waters of the Elbe would not yield me tears sufficient to weep for the miseries caused by the Reformation." Philip Melanchthon, Luther's cohort, Epistles, Book IV, Ep. 100
|
|
|
birdstrike
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 8 |
| First Name: | Birdstrike | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Science - Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 17th, 2006 05:15 am |
|
David:
Beautiful response, spoken like an experienced catechist. You're right, of course. I'm going to print that one out for my wallet. . . Thank you.
bjbouwer:
Pleased to meet you! I wish that you lived closer; I'd invite you out to lunch or coffee! Yes, Christian Science does feel good, and certainly does have the benefit of supplying a generally positive outlook on things. Too bad about it being nonsense, though. Have you read the "Milmine book" that CS tried to supress 100 years ago? Oh my goodness. . . . Most importantly, Thank You for your prayers. I will pray for your intentions as well.
dc:
I don't know how to do the "private" thing yet, so I'll be careful until I do. But you - or anyone else here - is welcomed to contact me offlist at:
noahmackenroth{at}psyber.com (substitute the "at" with an asterisk, of course)
nonsumdingus:
I've heard both Scott and Kimberly Hahn's conversion story on tape, but I haven't read Rome Sweet Home yet. Perhaps I'll have to. Yes, I'll attempt to "love her into the Church" - but let God do His will, of course.
Thank you all for your insightful responses. God Bless you all, and Merry Christmas (or "Happy Christmas" to dc!)
birdstrike
|
|
|
BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 840 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 17th, 2006 11:06 am |
|
Greetings,
I can't tell you how many times I have checked back to this list of postings looking for an idea that would work for me. My wife is not only a non-Catholic, she is a very strong anti-Catholic. Not too long ago the idea popped into my head that it was not my job to try to convert my wife. I can live a life according to what I know is right, which includes prayer, but the converting of a soul is the job of the Holy Spirit. The most effective thing I can do is to pray that God's will be done. The rest of the process and the credit goes to Him. 
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
|
|
|
CajunRick
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | | | Faith History: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 17th, 2006 12:12 pm |
|
BodRod wrote: Not too long ago the idea popped into my head that it was not my job to try to convert my wife. I can live a life according to what I know is right, which includes prayer, but the converting of a soul is the job of the Holy Spirit.
Remember the lesson of the sower and the seed. Our job in evangelization is to plant seeds, nothing more. Occasionally, we may be around to see the fruit being harvested, but most of the time we will never know how we have touched other lives. When you pray for those you wish to bring to the Church, pray that they have an open mind, and let the Truth take care of the rest. The seed on rocky ground cannot grow, and the Truth can't take root in a closed mind, either.
In evangelization, we plant the seeds. Those souls that touch a person with faith and love provide the water, and the Holy Spirit always fertilizes with grace. Those involved in RCIA experience the harvest, which is why it's such a rewarding ministry.
It's rare that we are present throughout the journey. In all the years I've participated in evangelization, catechetics, and RCIA, I've been present for the entire process from Muslim to athiest/agnostic to Baptist to Catholic once, and it took the better part of a decade.
Never confront, never condemn. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Embrace them with your Catholic faith. Show them that you have changed. If you have to say anything, tell them you are looking forward to sharing your faith with them, as soon as they are willing to listen with an open mind. As long as they believe you've been taken in by a "romish cult" you will never make any progress; you will only build walls that will harm relationships, and that will only drive them farther from the Truth.
Let your Catholic faith help you to build a bridge to other people; never let it be a wall between you. They'll be putting up enough walls to keep you out, and the only way you will ever breach them is the way Joshua breached the walls at Jerich. Continue circling and blowing your horn of love and Truth, and eventually the wall will crumble. But you may not be there to see it happen.
|
|
|
MitchyMitch
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Snellville, Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 103 |
| First Name: | Mitch | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Independent Baptist and Southern Baptist...Now Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 17th, 2006 04:16 pm |
|
I was a Baptist that converted my Catholic wife into the SBC. My tatics were heavy handed to get her to visit, but a pastor easily led her to "salvation". She grew strongly into the Southern Baptist Church as I was starting to have doubts.
When I became convicted that the Roman Catholic church was something I should check out (at a surprise to everyone, even me), I knew that I shouldn't pressure her at all, letting her know that if she decided to go to church somewhere other than where I went, I would be suppotive and encouraging.
She never left my side, and this year made her first confession in over 20 years to come into the fullness of Catholic faith.
____________________
Pax,
Mitch
|
|
|
GodBlessJoanie
Member
| Joined: | Sun Dec 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | Washingtonville, New York USA |
| Posts: | 10 |
| First Name: | Joanie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 17th, 2006 08:02 pm |
|
Hello Birdstrike,
Welcome Home! Here's the book that nonsumdiigus suggested. Rome Sweet Home, OUR Journey to Catholicism.
As you are probably aware, Scott converted first and then 4 years later his wife converted. The speak candidly about living in a Christian separated household. The book will also reveal exactly what opened Kimberly's heart to receive the Holy Spirit -- thus resulting in her own conversion!
It's a great book.
Blessings,
Joanie
____________________
God doesn't call the qualified, HE qualifies the CALLED!
|
|
|
birdstrike
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 8 |
| First Name: | Birdstrike | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Science - Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 19th, 2006 03:34 am |
|
MitchyMitch:
Wow. I'm glad it worked out. But it does emphasise how there's simply no predicting what the outcome may be.
GodBlessJoanie:
Yes, I guess I'll have to get the book. I've heard the tapes more than a few times, but there's undoubtedly more in the book - and I need more!
Thank you all for your posts - you've been very helpful. Merry Christmas to you all!
birdstrike
|
|
|
Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 306 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 19th, 2006 07:38 pm |
|
birdstrike wrote: How can I plant - or begin watering - that seed of faith in her heart?! Any suggestions would be appreciated!
birdstrike
Birdstrike,
Yeah, what everyone else said. I'm a cradle Catholic. And I've never been married. But I did date a Protestant man for a good number of years. Long story, but...
I remember even before we broke up a couple of years ago (this Christmas, in fact, it will be two years), I was on this forum and crying the blues about our religious differences and how could I convert him? I remember David Emery telling me that, considering the circumstances, even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear, I'd probably be better off to get out of the relationship. I wish I'd listened... not that it would have made the pain of separation any less, really, but at least the circumstances of the break-up would have been more favorable. As it was, the way we broke up pretty much devastated me.
Anyway, you're wondering what this has to do with your situation. Not much, except that I learned a difficult lesson. In hindsight, I realize that we were trying to convert each other. It didn't work. And it's true. It just puts up walls. My ex admitted that to me himself. Everytime I tried to "push" my views (though at the time I didn't realize that's what I was doing... sometimes hindsight is a bitter thing) he would tell me that when I'd do that it just made him feel more resistant. He was honest, I'll give him that. Oh, he tried to convert me, too. In fact, the main reason he broke up with me was because I wouldn't leave my Church to join him in his.
Anyway... all I'm trying to say, basically, is that I know what everyone else who's posted is talking about. Like Rick says, our job is to plant seeds. We can be gardeners. We can plant the seed, water it, take care of it. But we have no power over whether it will live or die. That is out of our hands. That is the Holy Spirit's realm.
So if you want your wife to convert, all you can really do besides pray for her is to show her by example what a great benefit it would be for her to convert. "Pushing" your views - or any views - on her won't work and will probably push her in the opposite direction, especially if, as you say, she has a good degree of pride. Practice your salesmanship skills, I guess  . You know how it is with salesmen... if they're too pushy, you feel like they're trying to "sell" you something. If you want to "sell" Catholicism, you'll have to find out what really makes her tick and what really moves her. Draw her out on those things which touch her the deepest, and put a subtle plug in for the Church's beliefs on those things which might support her thoughts. Everyone has a grain of truth inside themselves. Our desire for Truth is written in our hearts, after all. Maybe if she finds that the Church is right about some things, it might be right about others. But I would only go into "Catholic" mode if you're both having an "open" moment where you're both in an agreeable mood. If there's any hint of a rebellious attitude, don't touch it.
You mentioned that it bothers you that she "rejects your leadership." Hmm. Typical male . Sorry. But it's true sometimes. Don't get me wrong! Men are the head of the household, of course. But sometimes I think guys try so hard to prove their manliness that they take that out of context and try to force it down a wife's throat (I'm not saying that's the case here... just that it does happen). And that has the same result as someone trying to push their beliefs onto someone. It makes us women just want to rebel sometimes. Yes, men and women are different; we have different roles to play, but we are equal in dignity. Cave-man tactics don't work too well on most women ( - I just got an image of the Caveman from the Geico commercials... I love those commercials ). Anyway, what I'm trying to say is please, when it comes to trying to convert your wife, don't give her the impression that you're trying to "pull rank" - it will definitely drive her further away.
So, just pray, be a good example, and listen to what her concerns are in life and try to work the Catholic views in on the conversations in an unobtrusively matter-of-fact way that might give her pause to stop and think. You could try to subtly leave audio-visual materials or books lying around, though if you're too obvious she will get the picture and tune out. If you get EWTN, you could try leaving it on that channel and casually walk out of the room and give her time to maybe see a program without her feeling like you're watching her reaction to it. There are several little things you can try. But just don't be too pushy!
In the end, though, even if you show her all the benefits there are to becoming Catholic, ultimately it's up to her to accept the invitation. Again: Free Will. And you have to accept that.
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
Darlene
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 19th, 2006 08:24 pm |
|
Bodrod, this question is for you.
I know I have read many of your posts but I don't want to confuse you with someone else on this forum. Is your wife an anti-Catholic unbeliever or an anti-Catholic Protestant? I think if I recall right, it is the latter. In other words, does she think that you are just a religious nut and all religion is pointless and stupid, or is she a staunch Protestant that believes you are being deceived by false religion in the form of Catholicism?
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
|
|
|
BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 840 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 19th, 2006 08:51 pm |
|
Hi Darlene,
We were both raised in the Seventh-day Adventist church, including going through their school system. We stopped attending the SDA church about 25 years ago. I became interested in the RCC 5 or 6 years ago and started looking into it. After a little more than 4 years of personal study, it became obvious to me that I must follow what I believe is right and make some changes. So I started in RCIA. While my wife has not attended church in 25 or so years, she still holds on to a few of the SDA beliefs. In case you are not aware of it, SDAs are VERY anti-Catholic. In the past, they have published multiple volumes and comments against the RCC. Most of what they say about the RCC is false but then what can one expect when they teach by rumor and undocumented conclusions. (It is something like going to a dancer to learn how to swim.) For example, some of what I was taught included, Catholics worship Mary, the Pope is infallible about everything, they do not see Catholics as Christians, priests and nuns have sex and bury the babies under the convents, etc. etc. etc. You get the idea. Following one of her anti-Catholic tirades, we went over the Nicene Creed. She did not disagree with a single point in the Creed. Since that time, she has settled down a lot in her anger and fears and that has made life a little more calm around here. She recently had her 2nd stroke, but even that has not turned her thinking toward any religious ideas, neither her old ones or new ones.
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
|
|
|
twiggymoo
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 38 |
| First Name: | Twiggymoo | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Nazarene, Free Methodist, Baptist..Romeward bound |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 01:50 pm |
|
Hi Bodrod,
I'm also in the same boat. My wife is anti-catholic too - and a cradle catholic as well. She says she never knew Christ and the Holy Spirit as a catholic but when a fundamentalist preacher came along 30 yrs ago - she was enlightened. I'll agree with that - but I also believe she was a Christian as a Catholic but now she knows the language. I know this isn't exactly your specific situation - but someone said we need to love them into the church. I think that is the most effective language that our wives will understand.
May we have the grace we need to bring them in!
Don
|
|
|
BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 840 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 05:27 pm |
|
Hi Don,
Attitude, fear, ignorance and prejudice can be pretty powerful sheilds from knowledge and truth. In our situation here, my wife says she does not like change and she is afraid of what her siblings will think. I think that is a little strange since only two of her siblings are active in their church and she has no problem changing to new houses, new vehicles, new trailers and new clothes. I think it is very difficult for all of us to overcome the prejudices which have been put in our minds when we were young. I found that out in myself and I am seeing it in my wife.
My current situation includes taking life as it comes to me and do the best I can.
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
|
|
|
Current time is 08:02 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
