 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Flowerchild
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 31 |
| First Name: | Terri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian to nothing to Lutheran to now Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 12:24 am |
|
Hi,
Could someone please help me understand the difference between candidates for full communion and adult candidates for confirmation?
Rick had posted this in a separate topic and I guess I don't quite understand the differences.
I understand that Catechumens are those adults who have never been baptized before and want to enter the RCC. But can you be in "full communion" and not confirmed? Is there a sperate process of Confirmation? If yes do you do it all in the RCIA process?
Thanks for your help.
Terri
____________________
Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
St. Francis of Assisi
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5080 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 12:42 am |
|
Flowerchild wrote:
Could someone please help me understand the difference between candidates for full communion and adult candidates for confirmation?
An adult candidate for Confirmation is a baptized Catholic who has made his first communion but never been confirmed, and is past the normal age for Confirmation in his diocese. They are normally confirmed by the bishop along with the regular Confirmation class, not at the Easter Vigil. Permission from the bishop is required if they are to be confirmed by a priest even at the Easter Vigil.
A candidate for full communion was baptized in another Christian faith. Baptized Catholics who never made their first communion and were never catechized are also usually placed in this group. The latter do not need to make a profession of faith before entering the Church; they are already in full communion but since they are uncatechized, they are usually put through the same program as candidates for full communion, and usually are confirmed and receive first communion at the Easter Vigil. Both groups may also be welcomed at any Sunday liturgy, although special permission from the bishop is required if they are to be confirmed by the priest other than at the Easter Vigil.
A catechumen was never baptized in any Christian faith. Catechumens include those who are baptized invalidly such as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses; those baptized in the name of Jesus rather than the Trinity; and those baptized without water. They receive all of the Sacraments of Initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist) at the Easter Vigil.
The priest is authorized to administer the Sacrament of Confirmation at the Easter Vigil if the person is also making his first communion, with or without Baptism. The priest does not have blanket permission to confirm those who have already been baptized and received first communion prior to the Easter Vigil.
Does this clear it up? It can be a little complicated, and there are some other factors involved from time to time (such as formal renunciation of the Catholic faith), but those are rather unusual and would unduly complicate the explanation, which is already complicated enough for this forum.
Last edited on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 12:47 am by CajunRick
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Flowerchild
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 31 |
| First Name: | Terri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian to nothing to Lutheran to now Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 12:59 am |
|
Thanks Rick, you are right it seems complicated.
I think I get what you are saying. I guess coming from a Lutheran background I still have some questions. Thank you for your time on this topic.
For a Lutheran, let's say about 14'ish, they must go to confirmation classes and it takes a few years (2) to become confirmed. Then after confirmation you can participate in communion. Without confirmation and being confirmed in the Church you could not participate in communion. At least when I was growing up that is the way it was. Now things have changed in some of the Lutheran Churches and this is not necessarily true.
So in the Catholic Church does RCIA = confirmation classes? Or is just getting ready to make a profession of faith. Which is what happens at Easter Vigil (?) (right?)
To be in full communion with the Church is there more to do than the RCIA classes?
I guess a question would be: What is the difference between a profession of faith and being in full communion?
In my situation for example, I am Baptized (things are ok there), so when I finish with RCIA I would be in full communion with the Church?
Sorry you may have answered this already, I am just trying to make sure that I have the whole picture.
Thanks
Terri
____________________
Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
St. Francis of Assisi
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5080 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 01:25 am |
|
Flowerchild wrote: To be in full communion with the Church is there more to do than the RCIA classes?
To be in full communion with the Church is to state that you accept and believe all that the Catholic Church teaches and believes. That is the profession of faith you will make at the Easter Vigil. Once you make that profession of faith, the Church will accept you through its representative, the priest. At that point, you are in full communion and may receive Eucharist. However, you are not fully initiated until you have received all of the Sacraments of Initiation. You have already been validly baptized, so you must receive Confirmation and Eucharist to be fully initiated and recognized as an adult member of the Church. You do not need to be confirmed to receive Eucharist, but you do need to be confirmed before you can exercise ministries in the Church, such as being a Lector, Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, or catechist.
A baptized infant is in full communion with the Church, but that infant is not fully initiated until he receives Eucharist and Confirmation. So "full communion" and "fully initiated" are two different things. In your case, both will take place at the Easter Vigil, so you will leave the church both fully initiated and in full communion.
I guess a question would be: What is the difference between a profession of faith and being in full communion?
The profession of faith is your admission that you accept and believe all that the Catholic Church teaches and believes. Once the priest accepts your statement as true, he will welcome you into the Church and you will then be in full communion.
Think of it like this. When you got married, you exchanged vows with your spouse. Then the minister recognized you as married. Your profession of faith is the equivalent of the exchange of vows, and the recognition of your marriage is equivalent to you being accepted into full communion. The former causes the latter.
In my situation for example, I am Baptized (things are ok there), so when I finish with RCIA I would be in full communion with the Church?
Well, yes and no. It's not RCIA that brings you into the Church. It is your profession of faith at the Easter vigil. RCIA is what prepares you for that profession of faith. But normally your acceptance into the Church (full communion) would come at the end of the RCIA period known as Purification and Enlightenment. RCIA continues for the next 50 days of Mystagogia until Pentecost, but you will already be in full communion and therefore fully Catholic.
I know this sounds a little confusing, but it actually will be quite simple in your case as it will all take place at the same time. I have to be a little more detailed in my explanations because others who are not quite in your situation may have different experiences. For example, some people awaiting an annulment may finish RCIA but cannot yet be admitted into the Church. Some people admitted other than at the Easter Vigil may not be confirmed at the same time as their acceptance. There are other factors that can make a blanket statement inaccurate. But in your case it will all happen at the same ceremony and you will leave the church fully initiated and in full communion, and completely and totally Catholic.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Darlene
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 06:06 pm |
|
Rick,
Why do Catholics have their first Holy Communion first and then Confirmation, instead of the other way around? Also, what is Mystagogia and what does it mean?
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5080 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 07:53 pm |
|
Darlene wrote: Why do Catholics have their first Holy Communion first and then Confirmation, instead of the other way around? Also, what is Mystagogia and what does it mean?
Not all Catholics do. Eastern Catholics receive all of the sacraments of initiation in infancy. In the Latin Church, traditions developed separating the three sacraments so that Baptism was received in infancy, and Eucharist and Confirmation later. Vatican II attempted to restore the order of the sacraments, combining Confirmation and Eucharist at the age of reason. Most dioceses have not implemented this change.
Church law requires that the bishop make sure candidates for Confirmation are sufficiently catechized. Most bishops have taken the position that such catechesis requires a more adult mindset, and so have held back on Confirmation. In our diocese it is in the 11th grade. Once confirmed, most students do not return to religious education as their parents tend to consider it a "graduation". Of course, that's not correct, but unfortunately that's the way it tends to be seen in the United States. (I can't speak for other countries.)
So the rules in the Latin Church are that Baptism is to be conferred as soon as possible after birth; Eucharist is to be conferred as soon as a child is old enough to understand its meaning; and Confirmation is to be conferred when a child is sufficiently catechized to understand the commitment to the sacrament. And each bishop decides when those conditions are met in his own diocese.
As for the Mystagogia, that is the portion of RCIA that takes place after Easter and continues until Pentecost or even beyond. In the early Church, catechumens were not permitted into the Liturgy of the Eucharist until the Easter Vigil, so the time after Easter was spent in studying the meaning of the Mysteries (Sacraments) of the Church. That study took place during the Mystagogia. It should be a time when the neophytes (as the newly baptized are called) are integrated into the Church community. In the early Church (at least in some areas), catechumens were stripped naked, baptized nude, and were then presented with a white garment after their baptism, which they wore until Pentecost to indicate their newly washed souls. We represent this today with a white stole, robe, or other garment.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Flowerchild
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 31 |
| First Name: | Terri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian to nothing to Lutheran to now Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 02:02 am |
|
Thanks Rick for taking the time to clear things up for me.
Wishing you a very Blessed Holy Week and Easter Celebration.
Terri
____________________
Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
St. Francis of Assisi
|
|
|
Current time is 02:16 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
